Curse

freekedoutfish · Mar 06, 2007, 01:54 PM // 13:54

My first thought is...

Why do we want to increase prices?

My second, third and fourth thought is..

Why? why? why?

Sorry, back to a more rational comment. No one is going to sell items using the method your suggesting. Who is going to sell an item at a price which is mid-way between the NPC traders selling and buying price?

Lets say a weapon trader sold a sword for 150g, but he bought it back for around 50g.

Your suggesting that if you had that drop/identical item, you should sell it on the market for around 100g?

Why would anyone do that? You going to make a 40-45g loss, because you could have sold it for 140-145g and undercut the trader.

But aside from that, I dont understand how that mechanism is going to drive up prices!

The prices at NPC traders are not determined by how much we sell items for. The game has no way of knowing such things.

The prices at NPCs are determined by supply and demand of that particular material at NPCs.

If more people buy more materials from an NPC the price increase. If they buy less materials from an NPC, the price drops. Its intended to mimic a natural econimic sytem.

(For example; If every player sold every ecto drop they got to the NPC, but no one bought those ectos from the NPC. The supply would be too great and the system would eventually knock the price down to their defualt value of around 50-100g - or what ever it is - in order to sell them)

Plus it only works on materials. Equipment, weapons and armor have set prices which dont change. The only prices which change are raw materials, which players sell to the NPCs when they drop and add to their stock pile, which is how they run out if no one supplies them.

But again. Aside from alll of that, why do you want to drive prices up?

The main problem with the market in GWs, are the high prices. Its the lack of gold-sinks and players stock-piling gold and being able to buy weapons and materials in rediculious quantities and driving prices up.

If anything, we need prices to fall. But that wont happen while we have a huge rift between rich and poor players. We need more gold sinks to make rich players spend more on fixed priced items. Items they cant effect the price of.

NOTE:

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinnyRidira

Alway sell items at the average between the what the traders buy and sell price. ie. Boycott the traders and only deal direct. Maybe then the difference between the buy and sell prices will be tightened up. For example jewels sell for 7.5K and are bought for 5.5K. Offer to sell for 6.5K. Jewel prices will keep going up as long as traders are not buying.

Your logic is actually wrong, if you compare it to my example about ectos.

Assuming people continued to sell their jewels to the NPC materials trader;

If no one buys those Jewels back and instead buys them from each other, then supply at the NPC materials trader will increase to the point where it has to reduce prices to sell them.

Assuming people didnt sell their jewels to the NPC materials trader;

But even if no one did sell Jewels to the NPC materials trader and the supply ran out. It still wouldnt increase prices. If no one buys back from them, the system or Anet will automatically drop the prices to get rid of them and make people use them NPCs.

It wouldnt work either way to increase prices.

VinnyRidira · Mar 06, 2007, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

My first thought is...
Why do we want to increase prices?
My second, third and fourth thought is..
Why? why? why?
<skip>
Lets say a weapon trader sold a sword for 150g, but he bought it back for around 50g.

Because the game is driven by money you earn. Fixed cost items remain fixed cost items, so the more money you make the more fixed cost items you can buy. viz. Skills, Keys. If the price of Ecto's and Obsidian Shards dropped the people who farm those would be upset. Farming faction and getting Jadeites or Amber would hardly be worth the effort.

If Arena Net nerf's trading they will do it to keep game balance and I am ok with that. Also there are enough people in the game who will keep using traders to buy from. For a number of valid reasons, expediency is one of them.

Where have you seen a Weapons Trader?

Take 5 Stone Summit Badges worth 40g at the merchant. Go to the collector in Droks and get a Grim Cesta of Soul Reaping which you can sell for 125g. Make the same Cesta at a Weaponsmith and it will cost you about 6K (5K+material). That same Cesta you can only sell again for 125g and see if you can find a buyer to pay you any bucks for it. So again what weapons trader, there is no such NPC?

Let logic drive your thinking rather than emotion. I will be quite happy to concede when I am wrong.

Praetor · Mar 06, 2007, 07:56 PM // 19:56

The merchant buy/sell prices are to create a gold sink. You can get a better deal if you buy/sell to other players within that price range, however it comes at the cost of time and effort. Everyone can get by in this type of economy.

Strider77 · Mar 06, 2007, 10:35 PM // 22:35

You make this sound like in order to get money, you have to loose a limb. If you truly did play the game in the way youve described, youd know that money is not so hard to come by. Just because you dont get a rare and expensive drop doesn't mean you should come here and complain and while about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon_Xin

You really how no idea of how well GW reflects the real world market on good.
The rune/Dye merchant will only buy for 25g for a reason, because they're common as dirt. The merchants are just as much scurvey schiester bastards as some of us players. I think they're about perfect, except in for a few specific items.

But anyways, you missed a thread exactly like this apparently, maybe you should use search or read the frirst and second pages titles, or even, you know, follow the instructions at the top of the page(read stickies).

Not only because they are dirt cheap, but it tries at its best to follow the real world mechanics of Growth and Decay.

Morganas · Mar 06, 2007, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Maybe I'm missing something, but is the point of this thread "I farm and want ANet to help me make more money?" Jesus christ.

Farming is a dull repetitive act. Some people like dull repition that makes a particular number get bigger and bigger (though I don't know why you don't just buy a calculator, hit 1+1, and jam enter a bunch of times to farm bigger numbers on that), and good on them, but there should be nothing important a game that requires extensive farming to achieve, because for most people it just isn't fun. It's GOOD that prices are so low that even casual gamers can get a set of FoW and a complete set of greens eventually.

Higher prices could end this, and force people who want that stuff to do something tedious and stupid. Forcing prices higher helps a small minority of players, and hurts the majority of players, and I use the term "help" loosely." What would you buy with that money that's so important? The guy buying a green boss drop will obviously find use for his purchase, but what does the farmer do with his vast amount of dough. Probably just satisfies an OCD.

VitisVinifera · Mar 06, 2007, 11:14 PM // 23:14

I posted a suggestion a few pages ago to tighten up the disparity between buy and sell prices for traders, to keep spam down and make the game more about playing than typing wtb/wts

yosigii yojimbo · Mar 06, 2007, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinnyRidira

Alway sell items at the average between the what the traders buy and sell price. ie. Boycott the traders and only deal direct. Maybe then the difference between the buy and sell prices will be tightened up. For example jewels sell for 7.5K and are bought for 5.5K. Offer to sell for 6.5K. Jewel prices will keep going up as long as traders are not buying.

Yeah gl w/that. Utopian dreams are easy to come up with but generally impossible to implicate. Why? Because for better or worse people are individuals and generally act in their own self-interest, not the interest of the community at whole. You're not going to get people to participate in this grand scheme of yours. For every one person standing on the principle of only selling jewels @ 6.5k, there will be 10 willing to undercut that price in order to make a sale. myself included

and others who don't really care one way or the other and still prefer the convenience of going to the trader, low price or no. While the guild wars economy in no way reflects even a small percentage of real world variables > Free market economies are usually much more prosperous than strictly controlled ones for good reasons. Competition and lower prices are good for the buyer, and in turn good for the different sellers, because more money to spend means a buyer can afford to buy more things, and sellers are often buyers as well. Your suggestion of a monolithic organization of people engaged in price fixing won't work in the guild wars economy, competition will kill it, but gl

It's easy enough to make money in this game. Sell at prices people can afford while still making a profit, if you want to sell everything at ridiculous prices, you might get lucky a few times, but you won't sell much, and probably just get frustrated in the process

freekedoutfish · Mar 07, 2007, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinnyRidira

Because the game is driven by money you earn. Fixed cost items remain fixed cost items, so the more money you make the more fixed cost items you can buy. viz. Skills, Keys. If the price of Ecto's and Obsidian Shards dropped the people who farm those would be upset. Farming faction and getting Jadeites or Amber would hardly be worth the effort.

If Arena Net nerf's trading they will do it to keep game balance and I am ok with that. Also there are enough people in the game who will keep using traders to buy from. For a number of valid reasons, expediency is one of them.

Where have you seen a Weapons Trader?

Take 5 Stone Summit Badges worth 40g at the merchant. Go to the collector in Droks and get a Grim Cesta of Soul Reaping which you can sell for 125g. Make the same Cesta at a Weaponsmith and it will cost you about 6K (5K+material). That same Cesta you can only sell again for 125g and see if you can find a buyer to pay you any bucks for it. So again what weapons trader, there is no such NPC?

Let logic drive your thinking rather than emotion. I will be quite happy to concede when I am wrong.

Sorry, but is it save to assume you are one of these players who has a huge stash of gold lying around? So a huge inflation in prices isnt going to effect you in the slightest.

What about those who dont have alot of gold, or find it hard to earn gold. They also need to buy ectos, and jade and jewels too. Do they not count?

And why do I care whether the falling price of Ectos is going to "upset" the people who farm them? If someone is farming ectors with the pure intention of selling them on to make a profit and to increase their own (already) stupidly high wealth, then why do I care if they get upset!

Those who farm ectos, jade and jewels to make armor, arent going to care about falling prices. Those are the players we need to put priority on.

Thats another perfect example of the greed in GWs. People arent happy simply being rich, they have to be richer. Even at the cost of the poor ingame.

Ectos, Jade and Jeweles are NOT simply a rich-persons commodity. The poor ingame need to use them too, but you obviously dont are about that, or you wouldnt be suggesting we increase the cost of rare materials.

Basically you're entire premis is to drive the prices up, so that you can make more money selling them on to other players or the merchant.

Your trying to justify it by saying "Farming faction and getting Jadeites or Amber would hardly be worth the effort" if they didnt cost more to sell on.

That is absolutely selfish and it doesnt reflect the real reason why ectos, jade and other rare materials are farmed or exist.

They are first and formost materials needed for armor. Whether others want to use them as a form of curancey and a way to make profit is secondary to that. We should not put priority on using them as a form of profit.

If we increased their price, it would push them further out of reach of the poorer players and alienate them. The game would become even more elitist, and run by the rich players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinnyRidira

Let logic drive your thinking rather than emotion. I will be quite happy to concede when I am wrong.

As for that....

...pull your head out your ass and consider other people in the game. Your idea doesnt benefit anyone, except yourself and other farmers who want to being richer then you already are.

It doesnt benefit the manjority of players who dont have gold to role around in.